Seeing double. Seeing truth. Seeing art

What happens when two formidable artistic voices share not just a life but a continuous creative conversation? Laurie Simmons and Carroll Dunham have built distinct yet deeply intertwined careers, their work bouncing off each other in ways both conscious and subconscious. From Simmons’ staged photography exploring gender roles to Dunham’s raw, energetic paintings, their practices orbit, intersect, and diverge in unexpected ways. Recent exhibitions further illuminate their dynamic interplay — Dunham’s innovative solo show at Galerie Max Hetzler, Open Studio & Empty Spaces, highlights his evolving approach to myth-making and spatial construction, while their first joint presentation at Le Consortium in Dijon marks a landmark moment in their collaborative journey. In this conversation, the two reflect on artistic intimacy, the evolution of their respective works, and the nuances of making – and living with – art.

hube: Why does now feel like the right time for this joint exhibition, and how do you hope it positions your practices within the ongoing evolution of contemporary art?

LS: This show feels like a culmination of decades of shared experience, of existing in parallel yet distinct artistic worlds. It’s fascinating to see how our work operates together in this moment, especially with the current fluidity in contemporary art.

CD: I agree. There’s something intriguing about looking back at our trajectories and seeing how they align and diverge. This exhibition offers a chance to recontextualise our work – individually and in dialogue with one another.

hube: How has living together as two working artists shaped your daily life?

LS: It’s normal to us. I think people assume it must be difficult or competitive, but it’s not. We each have our space, our routines. We don’t hover over each other, but we always know what the other is working on.

CD: I think it’s shaped how we see the world. When you live with another artist, you develop a shared visual language, even if your work is completely different. There’s a kind of unspoken understanding.

hube: Do you critique each other’s work?

LS: Oh, all the time. Sometimes it’s helpful, sometimes it’s infuriating. We have different instincts – Carroll will push me to let things be rougher, looser. I’ll nudge him to consider the conceptual framework more deeply.

CD: I try not to take it personally when Laurie calls something I’m working on ‘too much’ – which happens often. (Laughs.) But I do think our best critiques happen in passing, when we’re not actively trying to critique but just responding naturally.

hube: Le Consortium places your works side by side, not just as individual artists but as a creative duo with intertwined histories. How does this setting reshape the perception of your individual legacies, particularly when seen in conversation with each other?

LS: It invites a different reading of our work. There’s something unexpected about viewing pieces you’re so familiar with in a new context, especially when placed in direct relation to someone else’s. Our legacies have always been connected in life, but seeing them intertwined in an exhibition space makes that more visible to an audience.

CD: We both have strong, independent voices, but when our work is positioned side by side, new dialogues emerge. Viewers might recognise similarities that even we hadn’t fully considered.

hube: The architecture and ethos of Le Consortium have a reputation for enhancing the dialogue between the artworks it houses. How did the physical space influence the curatorial choices for this exhibition?

LS: The space itself plays a huge role in how the work is received. We had to consider how pieces interact with the structure, how they breathe within it. Certain works resonate differently in this setting than they might elsewhere.

CD: The neutrality of the space allows for a fresh reading of the works. It removes external distractions and lets them speak more clearly to each other.

hube: This show could be seen as an artistic reflection of a long-term partnership. How do themes of connection, intimacy, and individuality surface across the pieces selected for this exhibition?

LS: There’s a balance between connection and separation. Some pieces almost feel like they’re in conversation, while others stand distinctly apart. That dynamic mirrors a real relationship – shared moments, independent trajectories, and points where everything overlaps.

CD: Exactly. The show highlights how two artists can evolve together without losing their individual sensibilities. It’s not about merging, but about coexistence.

hube: What’s the most unexpected influence you’ve had on each other’s work?

LS: Carroll made me appreciate looseness. I used to be so rigid about my compositions, but watching him work has taught me that a little chaos can be a good thing.

CD: Laurie made me more aware of the theatrical aspects of image-making. Even though I paint, I think more about staging now – how things are placed, what’s hidden, what’s revealed. It’s changed how I approach composition.

hube: Laurie, your photographs often invoke a sense of performance or stillness on the verge of disruption. How does this tension play against the visceral and tactile qualities of painting, particularly in this exhibition?

LS: There’s an inherent contrast between the stillness of photography and the rawness of painting, but I think that contrast is what makes the interplay interesting. My work deals with controlled composition and constructed realities, while Carroll’s operates with gesture and immediacy. In some ways, those opposing forces enhance each other.

hube: Carroll, your paintings are often described as physical and untamed, evoking a visceral reaction. How does pairing them with Laurie’s structured and cinematic compositions alter the energy of the work?

CD: Laurie’s images impose a kind of order, a controlled framing of reality, while my work is about pushing against that – creating a sense of urgency and movement. Seeing them together creates a push-pull effect that I think adds another layer to how they’re interpreted.

hube: At a time when many dismissed painting as passé, you pushed the medium into uncharted, provocative territories. What does this exhibition say about painting’s resilience and relevance in the contemporary art landscape?

CD: Painting is always declared dead, yet it never really disappears. What matters is what you do with it – how you challenge it, subvert expectations, and push it forward. I think this exhibition proves that both painting and photography are still very much alive, constantly evolving.

hube: Your careers have both engaged critically with the cultural norms of your times. In the age of digital saturation, how does this exhibition contribute to – or critique – our current visual and social landscape?

LS: We’re in an era where images are consumed and discarded at an unprecedented rate. My work has always explored constructed realities, and in a way, that feels more relevant than ever. The exhibition gives people a chance to slow down and really engage with images in a way they rarely do now.

CD: The sheer overload of visual culture today makes it harder for certain works to have a lasting impact. This exhibition, at its core, is about slowing down and looking closely – something that feels almost radical in today’s context.

hube: If you could collaborate on a project, what would it be?

LS: I’d love to do something where our work is physically intertwined – like a show where my photography and his paintings occupy the same space in an intentional way.

CD: That would be interesting. Maybe something where we create a new hybrid form together, instead of just placing our works side by side. A real fusion of our languages.

hube: Your practices are so distinct, yet there’s an undeniable dialogue between them. Do you feel like your work is in constant conversation?

LS: It’s funny – I don’t think we set out to have this constant visual conversation, but we’ve spent decades under the same roof, looking at each other’s work in real-time. That proximity creates a kind of osmosis. There are moments when I’ll finish something and think, ‘This has a bit of Carroll in it,’ and I’m sure the reverse is true. It’s not always obvious, but it’s there, under the surface.

CD: Definitely. When you live with another artist, whether you want to or not, you absorb their energy, and their preoccupations. I think our approaches are fundamentally different – I work with physicality, and aggressive gestures, while Laurie’s work operates in a more staged, constructed space. But at the end of the day, we’re both interested in creating narratives, just through different languages.

hube: From consumerism to postmodern identity politics, your works have consistently challenged dominant narratives. Does this exhibition reflect on these themes, or does it suggest new ones for the future?

LS: Those themes are always present in my work, but I also think this exhibition opens up new conversations – about artistic legacies, the ways we absorb visual culture, and how personal histories intersect with broader cultural shifts.

CD: It’s less about reinforcing past ideas and more about expanding on them. The best part of looking back is finding new ways forward.

hube: What excites you about contemporary art right now?

LS: There’s an incredible expansion of what’s considered art. The line between photography, sculpture, performance, and digital work is blurrier than ever, which is exciting. The challenge is keeping up with it all.

CD: There’s a boldness in younger artists today that I admire. They’re less constrained by old categories. That said, I’m still drawn to people who have a rigorous practice, who really live in their work.

hube: You’ve both been working artists for decades. How do you stay engaged with your practice?

LS: Curiosity. I never feel like I’ve exhausted what I’m interested in. Photography has changed so much – digital manipulation, AI, new media – it keeps pushing me into new territory.

CD: I just keep going. Making work is the only way I know how to make sense of things. Some days it’s thrilling, other days it’s like pulling teeth, but I show up regardless. That’s the job.

hube: Looking ahead, what’s next for both of you?

LS: I’m working on a new series that plays with AI-generated imagery, which is a departure for me. It’s about trust – what we trust in an image, what feels real versus manufactured. It’s unsettling, which is why I’m drawn to it.

CD: I’m continuing to push the scale of my paintings, working even larger. The physicality of it excites me. I want the viewer to feel consumed by the work, to stand in front of it and have no escape.

hube: Final thoughts – what keeps you both creating?

LS: Obsession.

CD: Stubbornness.

LS: (Laughs.) That too.